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0:00:00 - Betsy Jordyn
Do you want to know the number one thing that you can do that will create so much more ease and flow in your business, in your career as a consultant or coach? Well, I'll tell you it's not doing more, but it's accepting more of who you are, and you're going to find out more about this on this episode of the Enough Already podcast. And welcome to the Enough Already podcast. This is the show for consultants and coaches who want to forge their own path to success in their careers and in their lives. I'm your host, betsy Jordan, I'm a business mentor and I'm a brand messaging strategist, and I am so excited to have on the show Laura Gallaher.
She is an amazing human being. We worked together several years ago when she was just starting off her business. She's an organizational psychologist who applies the real science of psychology to organizations. She's got a really super cool story, but she's also an expert on self-acceptance, and so I wanted to have her on the show for so many different reasons because she's just interesting, and you're going to discover all about how interesting she is, but I love this whole idea of self-acceptance. I think that this is one of the biggest struggles that we have, especially as we're leaving corporate and we're starting our own business and we really believe who we are is really connected to our titles and our companies and we really have to figure out who we are and accept that. And so I could just continue on and on about all the reasons why I have Laura on the show, or I could just welcome her to the show. So welcome Laura, I'm so excited to have you here.
0:01:32 - Laura Gallaher
Thank you so much for having me, Betsy. I can't wait for the conversation.
0:01:36 - Betsy Jordyn
So, before we get into this because some people might think you're very much like this competent person and you're talking about something squishy like self-acceptance what is self-acceptance and what's the true definition of self-acceptance from your perspective?
0:01:52 - Laura Gallaher
The simplest way I describe self-acceptance is I'm going to use I language, so speaking by myself in the I, which is something I invite all of your listeners to do as well. I am okay with myself right now, exactly as I am Not only if I change certain things, only if I hit certain goals, but I'm okay with who I am, including my flaws and imperfections, as well as my talents and strengths.
0:02:20 - Betsy Jordyn
Interesting.
0:02:22 - Laura Gallaher
So I describe it.
0:02:24 - Betsy Jordyn
It sounds like your. Your definition is a lot about like just being present with actually what is and accepting what is.
0:02:31 - Laura Gallaher
The primary thing is do I judge myself or do I accept myself? That's really the thing to notice, and self-judgment is pervasive and can take a lot of really hidden forms. And what we find in our work and what the science of human behavior teaches us is that the absence of self-acceptance, or self-acceptance might be lower, and I'm actually judging myself, knowingly or unknowingly. I will behave defensively and those defense mechanisms and how that shows up in my behavior can look all different kinds of ways, but I am always undermining my effectiveness when I'm behaving from defensiveness. So self-acceptance is the antidote that genuinely makes everything in your life easier.
0:03:20 - Betsy Jordyn
So you're not talking about self-esteem. It seems like there's a huge distinction between what you're talking about with self-acceptance versus self-esteem. What do you see as the difference?
0:03:32 - Laura Gallaher
Yeah. So I think what's most important as far as the difference between self-acceptance and self-esteem. So self-esteem is how close am I to my ideal self? I'll often describe it like imagine you've got two circles and one of the circles represents how I see myself today and one of the circles represents my ideal self, right, the person I want to be. How much those two circles overlap will theoretically determine my self esteem, right? So how do I feel about my self-concept? How do I feel about how I see myself?
Self-acceptance is more nuanced, though, because pretty much everybody that I know does see a gap between who they are today and who they want to be. Almost everybody that I know has things about themselves. They want to improve upon knowledge, they want to gain skills, they want to develop just ways they want to be. Almost everybody that I know has things about themselves. They want to improve upon knowledge, they want to gain skills, they want to develop just ways. They want to become a better fill in the blank.
Self-acceptance comes down to how do I feel about the gap?
Do I look at the gap between where I am today and where I want to be as a sign that I am inadequate, that I am not enough, that I am failing, or do I look at that as having nothing to do with whether or not I'm enough now, but only as something that I'm really excited about pursuing? I can be completely okay with who I am today and feel super excited about the self-improvement and self-development that I'm headed toward. So a lot of people have this flawed way of thinking, like I have to beat myself up, I have to judge myself in order to improve myself, in order to grow. This is one of the biggest fallacies that I want every human being to understand for themselves, because actually, the research is really clear when I can be self-accepting on my growth journey, it's accelerated. I will grow faster and I will grow more when I'm growing from a place of being okay with where I am right now, versus wanting to grow from a place of judging myself and feeling like I'm not enough, I'm inferior, I'm adequate.
0:05:47 - Betsy Jordyn
So it's almost like if you pursue self-esteem, it's always a moving target because you know, whatever that standard is, if you talk about, it's the gap between where I'm supposed to be it's always a moving target versus accepting who you are and where you are right now. I had a guest on the show Her name is Laura and she talked about also another Laura, about the, about having an adventure mindset. She compared it to like if you're going to climb a mountain and where you're at right now is just in the parking lot, then you just accept and enjoy the fact that you're in the parking lot rather than feeling like, oh my gosh, I, I need to climb a summit. You know, would you concur with her perspective? And and that whole idea of just like it's cool, I'm in the parking lot, look how cool the parking lot is, it's so interesting, you know, just enjoy the parking lot for what it is instead of like, oh, I'm not at the summit.
0:06:35 - Laura Gallaher
I think it's a wonderful way to stay present and I love that metaphor. I've used something similar, although in my example somebody is not usually just in the parking lot. Normally they're partway up the mountain. They just don't stop long enough or often enough to like how far have I come Right To do that, look back and see the distance that's behind them. And this is for high achieving people. I think this is incredibly common.
People are so quick to undermine and devalue their accomplishments and their progress because they're hyper fixated on the gap that they see in front of them. There's a really great book by Dr Benjamin Hardy, who's a friend of mine. He wrote it with Dan Sullivan's concepts in mind, called the Gap and the Gain, and there's so much about that book that really embodies a lot of what I love about self-acceptance as the gain. And there's so much about that book that really embodies a lot of what I love about self-acceptance as a practice. And it teaches us that especially you know, coaches, consultants, entrepreneurs, people who are out there achieving, working to make things better they're always striving, they're hyper fixated on the gap and so missing the gains, not talking about the gains, undermining the gains and that place of self-judgment. We're just less likely to make good decisions around our growth when we're in that place. We give ourselves this giant like emotional hurdle that we have to overcome before the growth even begins.
0:07:59 - Betsy Jordyn
So interesting, and as I hear you talking about this, it's like you know, as you're describing your background too. Like you, you are this, you know, you have a PhD, you're, you are a high achiever, you're an organizational psychologist, you work with companies like like Disney and NASA, and you do all of this stuff. How in the world did you choose to go down this path of like becoming this expert in self acceptance, of like becoming this expert in self-acceptance.
0:08:27 - Laura Gallaher
So there it was definitely an accumulation of moments, and there was one moment that does stand out to me more than others, which was, I think, I was 30, 31, something like that, and it was kind of one of the first times that I realized, like, how full of it I was because, as you pointed out, like I had been in school straight from high school, you know, into undergraduate, straight to PhD, I began working for NASA while I was still working on the PhD, and so that was an incredible workload and just so focused on like achieving, achieving, achieving. And I I remember telling my, my then boyfriend that I didn't want to get engaged or even think about planning a wedding until I finished school, but he only waited a couple months after I graduated to propose, and so then it went from like filling my time and focus on the achievement of school to now I'm working full time and I'm planning a wedding. And then it was, you know, building the custom house, and then I started a business. So now, you know, full time job at NASA and I'm running this business on the side, and my, my then husband came to the office. I was like in my home office, working, you know, working on my, my second job after already working a full day. He said, hey, you know, patrick and Kelly would love to go to a movie with us tonight. You want to go, like I? Just I really have so much work to do, you know. And he's like come on, laura, like I always, I always want us to go have more fun, like you're always working on stuff.
And I said, I know, but it's only going to be like this until and I realized I didn't have an honest answer to that Like or into that sentence like until what, what? Like everything that my brain was starting to fill in I'm like you're full of it. Like it's only gonna be like this until what my revenue hits a certain point. It's only gonna be this until what I hire somebody to join my team, like I'm building a business now. Like what? At what level do I think I'm going to achieve? Or suddenly I'm going to give myself permission to have fun?
And the fact that I caught myself in that like oh man, I have been on this hamster wheel of, without realizing it, feeling like I wasn't enough and constantly chasing that next accomplishment, that next achievement, in order to suddenly maybe feel like I was enough, like I could relax and enjoy myself, was, uh, it kind of shook me to my core a bit and I want to tell you that, like I immediately figured it out and I was like you know, let's go to the movies, and it wasn't like that.
I was like I can't, I have stuff to figure out, but it it just drew my awareness to the fact that I could see myself differently and that I was always going to be working on growing and building myself or my business or something. And so what is missing? And I think that raised my awareness around. I want to understand this piece that's missing. What is this? Because I don't want to live my life constantly feeling like whatever I have or whatever I am isn't enough, and so that, combined with a whole bunch of other education and training, really brought this whole idea of self-acceptance into my life in a very real way.
0:11:56 - Betsy Jordyn
So I remember, cause I was working with you somewhere around that time I think that that's when we met at the OD network and and you were, you were one, my actually you were one of my early mentees when I had pivoted my business. But I remember you at the time like you were like very clear, like okay, I want to grow a team in this particular way, like you always knew what your own mind was. And then all of a sudden it's like, oh, I'm going on a whole remote year, like you were going down this one path. I remember of like building your team. You were very focused on that. And then the next second you're on a remote year. You know, is that, is that the time period where you're like, is that all within that same similar time period where you decided like I just need to go travel?
0:12:40 - Laura Gallaher
Um, you know, I think that's probably like a four or five year period from kind of the story that I'm sharing now to the time that I went on the remote year and so, like I said, it was a little bit of a slow unfolding for me. Um, and you know, as I sit here what, 10 years later from the story that I was just sharing about, sort of that recognition of the moment, this concept of self-acceptance knows no bounds. The depth continues forever and ever, and that's part of why I got this journey tattoo.
0:13:09 - Betsy Jordyn
What does it say?
0:13:09 - Laura Gallaher
It says journey. Oh yeah, not the band, that's my other tattoo, I'll get that right here, but just a reminder that you know, and I think about the woman you were just referencing with the whole like being adventurous, right, like it's all about the journey, even in the parking lot, like that's part of the journey. And so you know, I think for me it took a couple of years to continue to put the pieces together and recognize that I could tell myself you know what I'll travel when I'm retired, when's that going to be right? And like, what am I? Am I waiting for that? Why am I waiting for that?
And so there was a whole bunch of things that just had me continuously reevaluating what's important to me now, what do I want now and what are the lies I'm telling myself that stopped me from living that life now, like, oh, I can't because, or it'll be easier when it'll be better when. And so I actually made the decision to move to Sydney. Australia was my original plan, and I ran into some visa obstacles and somebody recommended remote year to me instead. So I did that. I was working the whole time, which made it its own huge challenge. And yes, I did. I interrupted some of the momentum of my business in doing that, but I was prioritizing an experience that I wanted to have rather than what I thought I'd be able to accomplish.
0:14:30 - Betsy Jordyn
Which is interesting because you wound up doing a TED Talk on that same thing. So I imagine that it felt like I was slowing down on my business, but it was actually propelling you to a different kind of stage.
0:14:42 - Laura Gallaher
Yeah, I mean, you know the funny thing about me saying you know what I could wait to do this later, I could just do it now. I just did it now. And I was saying you know what I could wait to do this later, I could just do it now. I just did it, I just did it now and I was like you know what, I'm going to figure it out, I'll figure it out. And I did.
You know, I mean, I coped through it and probably the hardest year of my life like one of the coolest things ever done, and probably one of the hardest years of my life. And there there are a lot of times throughout that year where I can, in hindsight, look back and see where my self-acceptance was low and I can see how it was impacting some of my decisions and my view of life, and the times where I was feeling stuck or thinking that I wasn't empowered to make something different and so doing a TED talk. The idea was can you speak about home in the context of having traveled so much? But I ended up talking about you know how to feel at home anywhere is always coming back to this idea of self-acceptance.
Things that that challenged me about traveling always came back to how do I feel about myself in this context? How do I feel about myself when I don't even know how to order a burrito without cheese right? Or like what's happening for me, when I'm afraid of appearing like I'm an entitled American in this other country where I don't speak the language? The language, and so every country that I went there was a new, a new challenge that changed how I saw myself, raised insecurities that I didn't even realize that I had, and so the whole idea of like how to feel at home anywhere always comes back to what is my relationship with me? Am I okay with who I am and where I am right now, in this moment? Or am I okay with who I am and where I am right now in this moment? Or am I telling myself I'm only going to feel okay with myself when these things change?
0:16:33 - Betsy Jordyn
Right, that's the fallacy. Like I can create my life to be such a way where you know I can feel safe enough to show up and be me. You know, like it's something external and everything it does come to an internal. I want to explore a little different definition too around this self-acceptance, because I think that there's some level around self-acceptance with okay, here I am relative to my progress and everything's a learning journey. So I should stay out of judgment and not be in the imposter syndrome and just kind of go with that. But I think that there's a different side, or at least this is what I'm discovering.
I'm in my 50s now and it's amazing how long it take, it took, for me to go from like, oh, here's my personality type in here, here, here's how I'm wired to like wait a minute, there's implications here. Like I, I discovered recently that I'm an HSP, I'm a highly sensitive person, which means I have depth of processing. I get overwhelmed. You know I have a lot of you know, sensitive, empathetic and all those other things. But there's like like now my whole life makes sense. It's like oh well, that's why I got overwhelmed when I kept traveling so much to so many different clients and I got overwhelmed with, you know, all of that stimuli, or like my, you know it's the things that give me a superpower, for sure, but it's like I didn't know how to protect myself and protect my energy.
Accepting this because I was raised in a highly extroverted family, I thought I had to be like this kind of person. I'm not. I'm very much an introvert. How is it that so I want to talk to you about? So I'm just using myself as an example. How do we talk about getting to self-acceptance on the aspects of ourself? I have some clients who are neurodiverse, have ADHD, you know, have trauma in their background, you know they come to consulting and coaching business ownership because something bad happened to them. They got laid off, they got burnout. How do you help somebody you know really accept themselves for who they are, even if it's not culturally or environmentally, you know, popular, and how do you accept these difficult things that are happening to you? How do you help people? Or what are the suggestions that you've learned from the science around? How do you come to acceptance on those things that might be a little bit more challenging?
0:18:38 - Laura Gallaher
The first step is to actually let yourself feel all of your own internal selfgment. The reason that a lot of people avoid going down this road at all is because it's a deep feeling journey, at least how I understand it. Maybe there's a version of it that somebody can skip that step.
I haven't yet reflected in the science. So, because what happens when there's a gap in self-acceptance? The vast majority of the gaps that we have as human beings in that space we're not aware of, and I know that people like you, betsy, and your listeners are like, no, I'm aware of, like where I judge myself and this and that, yeah, some of it, but your brain is only allowing yourself to know the amount of self-judgment that you can tolerate, what you think you can tolerate. So so my self-awareness is always going to be capped by my level of self-acceptance and there are really deep seated, harsh judgments that each of us has about ourselves that have been hanging out in our subconscious for the majority of our lives, like going back, unfortunately, you know, early childhood kind of stuff.
And yes, there can be things that happen in adolescence and early adulthood, like we can experience life events that change how we see ourselves at any time. But a lot of what I'm talking about is like these are the ways that I judge myself without even knowing I'm doing it. Like these are the ways that I judge myself without even knowing I'm doing it, and so letting yourself feel that self-judgment is actually what's important, and it can feel very counterintuitive because, to talk about self-acceptance, it feels like it's all about like, regard yourself with love and, you know, be so gentle with yourself, and yes, all of that. And I have to actually know what part to be gentle with.
I have to know what part I'm judging myself for in order to allow myself to practice acceptance around that. Once I allow myself to know some of that judgment, I also begin to allow myself to know where does that come from? Like you're highlighting you know things about society or things about the way that you grew up, and so that's maybe. The next step is to say, like, okay, wow, I notice that I am judging myself so harshly for getting overwhelmed at stuff. I'm not supposed to be getting overwhelmed at stuff. I'm supposed to be on it, I'm supposed to just be okay. I'm supposed to be able to, like, take all of this. Okay, so feel all the judgment of that. Like what's, what are all the horrible things that are bad about you? That you get overwhelmed? You're weak, you're, you know you're not enough, you're just whatever.
I don't know, I don't want to fill in the words for you, right, but like, feel all of that surface, all of that. I usually ask, like, what is your harshest inner critic or inner judge? Say, hey, about somebody like that. I even like separate it, say it's not you that person over there. They get so overwhelmed so easily, like what's the judgiest part of you? Think about them. We surface that, okay, feel that that's what you've been working to avoid feeling.
And then where does that come from? You know whose? Whose beliefs have been, um, provided to you as something that you should adopt yourself. Some of that's going to be society, some of it's going to be upbringing. It could be a teacher, it could be a parent, it could be a sibling, just whoever. So there's a lot of like, roll back the tape and think about some of these experiences.
When did you first remember feeling so judged? Or when did you remember getting the implicit experience of like, oh, I watched my parents. They didn't talk about it, but I watched them. I watched how they were hard on themselves if they were overwhelmed, whatever it might be, okay. So that's the second step. And then the third step is to actually step into compassion for them. Right, I mean, where did that come from from them, like they didn't fully make it up themselves. We are all a product of our life experiences and that tends to accumulate, and so it's feeling a lot of the negative stuff. It's identifying sort of how did this come to be? And then it's leaning into compassion. When I do all of those things, I actually stop making a lot of these past experiences about me, and now my self-judgment drops dramatically because I'm not trying to internalize everybody else's stuff.
0:23:00 - Betsy Jordyn
It's so interesting I don't know if you ever read Elizabeth Gilbert's Big Magic and she talks about you know she talks about. You're actually giving different advice than what she would say, cause she's cause. I always reacted when she said, well, just take fear and throw it in the back seat. I'm like, well, it doesn't seem very nice to fear, like it's just trying to do you know, like it it feels like like that's not really nice.
And you're saying different is like, instead of saying I'm going to banish you to the back, I'm going to, I'm not going to give you a bad name and I'm not going to call you my gremlin, you know, or bring some be rude to that part of myself. It's just like, well, wherever that judgment is or whatever, whatever those issues are that are keeping me from being an acceptance, it's like, well, just sit with it for a little bit, like let's have coffee, you know. Instead you're saying let's have coffee, let's chat about it, let's talk about it, and then from there, then it kind of like you know, maybe you could win over that, trust a little bit of that part of you because you're being nice to it, rather than you know, it goes to the backseat of the car.
0:23:55 - Laura Gallaher
Absolutely, absolutely. And I, I it's so spot on. I love what you're saying, because the thing to recognize in all of this that's so meta is my own inner critic, is part of me, and so, yeah, if I try to like shut it down, if I try to battle it or fight it, I am still battling myself. I am still now in a judgy place.
If I can befriend the fear, if I can befriend the critic, then I'm in a much better position to ask it to operate differently with me. And I actually have used a similar metaphor of like fear is part of the human experience, that's okay. Just take note of when fear is driving and when you'd rather have something different, like love or you know what we want for ourselves in the driver's seat. Don't worry about fear. It's not going anywhere, like it can hang out in the back. It's going to be there. And you know what, when it's really useful, fear is going to be loud enough.
It's going to be like watch out for that car, you know like fear is not going to abandon you ultimately, but just notice if you're letting it drive or not. But that step of like becoming friends with it first, otherwise it's going to keep driving in ways that I don't even know.
0:25:07 - Betsy Jordyn
Right, that's true, it'll become a dysfunctional like kind of like a participant in a meeting. You know, like I, like I use the analogy of like an internal boardroom and because, like, if you facilitate a meeting and you have somebody who's like squawking at you, if you don't acknowledge it right, there are concerns on a flip chart, they're going to tank the meeting. You know, nothing's going to get done. But if I take a beat and say, tell me a little bit about what, what are you thinking, what are you feeling, right on the flip chart, and then I give that framing and empathy, it's like, so what I heard you say. And then all of a sudden they're like ah, chill, like I think that that's the same way of how I recommend to my clients.
Like when you're dealing with fear, it say the same thing about judgment. In terms of like there's a difference between like I'm afraid of money versus like I don't accept this part of who I am. You know in that part. I think it's still the same technique, if you will, so can you talk to me a little bit about? Or actually, can you talk to the people who are listening, who are consultants and coaches, business owners, and they are corporate, like you were and they're trying to accept like. How would you apply the self-acceptance to them as they're making that leap or they're trying to grow their business to the next level or do the steps that you did around writing a book or doing a TED talk? How would you use the self-acceptance to help fuel their success as a consulting or coaching business owner?
0:26:25 - Laura Gallaher
So, on a pragmatic front, I would say a lot of it is about being willing to celebrate where you are and enjoy the journey. Another reason why I got the journey tattoo is just this reminder that, like, the journey is literally all we have. Even if there's milestones and destinations that I'm excited for, even if and I'm not on this train, but even if I was like I'm building a business to sell it, my journey is not over y'all like it doesn't end at that point, and so whatever steps your listeners have ahead of them, the things that they want to accomplish for themselves Great.
But pragmatically, please allow yourself to feel proud of the progress that you've made. Whatever it is Like, there's nothing too small to take credit for. Taking credit is one of the most common practices that I recommend for people that want to grow their self-acceptance. If you take credit for something every single day and there's nothing too small to take credit for every single day, it's like doing pushups for the first time, right. It's like doing little baby pushups to get to the point where like, okay, I can do this. I can do this, stronger I'm, I'm growing. So take credit for every step of the journey. Don't be afraid to turn around and see how far you've come. Research shows that actually doing that has a greater impact on what we're able to accomplish than focusing on the gap that's ahead.
0:27:53 - Betsy Jordyn
It's like a gratitude practice, if you will, but just apply the gratitude to look at how I've grown, look at how I've accomplished things. You know, it's that same type of thing, but more like I'm so grateful, so grateful. What about, like, just even the acceptance over like I? Like I accept that I have discontent that makes me want to leave a corporate job and start a business, like how to you know? And not resisting those desires. Or I have a longing for my business to be shaped like this, and I'm not going to talk myself out of it Like would you say that that's all part of self-acceptance.
0:28:25 - Laura Gallaher
Yeah, I think yeah, part of self-acceptance is am I okay with what I want? Do I want what I want? But I'm like judging myself for it. I'm judging myself for what I want and I'm thinking I shouldn't want this.
Right, I'm going to get my way over and over and over again. If I'm judging myself for what I want, you know I have big dreams for myself all the time and I've gotten more and more comfortable with, like you know, what people are going to judge me for that. But they're going to judge me no matter what I do. So I'm just going to do me share dreams that might feel almost embarrassing to share, you know, and the steps you can take. Notice, if you're judging, am I judging? Am I judging the fact that I'm not happy in this corporate job? Do I feel like I'm supposed to?
yeah you know, it's kind of those same steps. It's like how can I just be more okay with what I want? And this is one of the things from the gap in the game that I actually really loved that was very helpful for me is that point was hammered home so much you want what you want and that's enough. Yeah, because you want it, that's all. And yes, I think there's deep work you can do about like, oh, do I judge myself for wanting that? Okay, where's that come from? You go through the steps from before, but like there's nothing wrong with what you want for yourself.
0:29:47 - Betsy Jordyn
And there's nothing wrong with what you want and there's nothing wrong if you don't know exactly how to activate it quite yet I think one of the big myths that I deal with with my clients all the time is this what I call I should already know how to do. This myth, like somehow you leave corporate and you should automatically know how to grow a business, how to do, how to market, how to get clients and all of that Like I think part of self-acceptance is like I really don't know and it's okay that I don't know.
0:30:14 - Laura Gallaher
Yeah, I talk about, um, toddler mentality. I don't know if that's like a phrase you're familiar with. I'm sure the concept would be very familiar to you because it it embodies a lot of what you're saying now. But I'll ask my clients sometimes to think about when a toddler is first learning to talk, or they're learning to walk, right, they start babbling first. I mean, they kind of sound like idiots, right? People don't say that normally about toddlers, because we just understand that's where they are.
Or when they're learning to walk, you know, like, yeah, they fall down, and I point this out because a toddler learning to walk and I point this out because a toddler learning to walk, falling down, might get frustrated, might feel angry, might feel like I don't know how to do this. But at no point do they allow this fear of judgment from other people or self-judgment get in their way. A toddler doesn't fall down and go. Oh my God, so embarrassing. You know what I'm just going to stick with crawling Y' you know what I'm just going to stick with crawling Y'all. Do the walking. I'm just going to crawl, I'm good.
0:31:13 - Betsy Jordyn
Yeah, right.
0:31:14 - Laura Gallaher
Get in the way. They know that they're learning and they still experience the rollercoaster of I don't know how to do this yet, but they're. They're not thinking that they're supposed to know how to do it. It's just the learning journey, and so having a toddler mentality in any area of life is going to make the whole experience, I think, more enjoyable.
0:31:31 - Betsy Jordyn
Well, you know, it makes me think too is like what kind of environment that you're around? Cause I had toddlers and I remember anytime they were doing these things, I didn't talk to my child when they were learning to talk, like, oh, you're talking, funny, it's like, oh, you know. I talked back to them like oh, so what do you hear? So you're trying. Oh, you want milk. Okay, you know, I just talked to them. Or when they start to walk, it's like yay, you know, like we need to have like more environments, you know where. You know, like one of the things I always start off like I have weekly community meetings with my mentees and I always start with the wins and everybody has to share any sort of wins and the goal is everybody has to clap because it's like no matter what you're doing, it's like, yeah, you know, when we don't do that or we don't, we don't always force ourselves in these environments where people are saying, yeah, good job.
0:32:19 - Laura Gallaher
Yeah, you know, do that and we create that kind of community. I mean, this is what I. I want people to seek these communities out for themselves, that they haven't been part of it before. I want them to create them if they feel like they're in a position to do that. And then self-acceptance, you know, I want to say at the deepest level, and the deeper I get, the more I realize I have no idea where the depth of this go, like it just keeps going. But there's a level of to what degree can I do this for myself?
0:32:44 - Betsy Jordyn
Yeah.
0:32:45 - Laura Gallaher
Well, right, Because the more I'm able to do it for myself, the easier it is for me to create that kind of environment for other people. So I imagine it's been a big part of your journey and you've grown a ton in your self-acceptance over the course of your life and your career which makes it easier for you to create that kind of environment for other people. And when they get to that place where it's easier for them and they, they're like, they're more self-sufficient and that doesn't mean don't have community don't lean on people.
It just puts you in that position where, yeah, you know what I would love for my parents to be proud of this career that I chose, but maybe they're not. I think my parents are but, like some people, are going to face judgment from their families of, like you're leaving your corporate job to do Like you don't need them to validate or approve your decisions. Now I get why people want that because it goes back to our childhoods. But if you can be that champion for yourself, then you stop being, you know, at just the mercy of the winds and how they blow from other people's judgment and their stuff.
0:33:43 - Betsy Jordyn
So all of this makes so much sense, like when we're talking about the application to an individual who's going through this journey. But you work with these corporations, you know, and so there's a lot of pressure to conform to external expectations. You have it in leadership competencies and you have it in performance expectations and all that kind of thing you know. So how is it that you take these principles around self-acceptance and you apply it to organizations and I know that one of your big areas of passion is corporate cultures and creating healthy cultures from the inside out. How do you balance the reality of corporate environments that are externally driven with expectations? And you know, and we're in this insecure world where, if you don't fit those expectations, you could be gone very quickly and very easily? You know it's masked in the next layoff and what you're teaching here you know. How do you, how do you apply that in that environment?
0:34:41 - Laura Gallaher
So a couple of things. One is, most of the time I'm fortunate enough that I'm working with the leadership at the very top of the organization. Normally it's the CEO that I've connected with and he or she is bringing me in and I am working with that leader and their executives, and this is my favorite way to work within organizations, because they really get to lead the way and they begin to model all of the behaviors and we have detailed, you know, hours long conversations, workshops even dedicated to like what is self-acceptance and how can I practice that more, and helping those leaders better understand how their own self-acceptance is ultimately going to make it easier for the people around them to be self-accepting, which ultimately creates the kind of cultures that leaders want. They don't necessarily know that's what they want, but that's what they want. So that's a part of it is that I get to work influencing from top down Right and that way yes, occasionally there's like the PE firm right or the VC company that like they have a board of people that they kind of answer to, but within their own entity they get to drive that culture.
The other thing that I would say is that, you know, vulnerability is courageous and courage is contagious. Say that again. That's really good. Vulnerability is courageous and courage is contagious. So anybody who's maybe not at the very top of their organization or, you know, maybe some of your listeners are. They're solopreneurs, so they're working for themselves, right, but like they're trying to figure out these corporate environments, we respond as human beings pretty well to other people's vulnerability.
It's not a silver bullet, but it's actually the closest thing that we experience. We tune in, we're hyper-focused and most of the time, I might look at somebody else who is being open and vulnerable and feel like a lot of admiration for the fact that, like they're willing to do that and be that. So yes, on the one hand, there's the sense of I'm supposed to conform, I'm supposed to do and and you know, do things in a certain way and be a certain way. On the other hand, I can actually build a brand for myself that says like I'm going to be super real with you and that implicitly gives you permission to be super real with me, and that's where trust and connection comes into play. And so my vulnerability, me being open, me practicing more self-acceptance makes it easier for you to do the same, and it's actually ridiculously powerful.
0:37:09 - Betsy Jordyn
So let's say you have someone like I picture some of my the executives that I worked with. They like, they had superpowers. Like one of the clients I worked with, I remember like his superpowers, he was a contrarian thinker. You know, he's like that person that always thought outside the box. But you know, people only wanted it for a particular time, you know. And so with like leadership competencies, other things, his wings were trying to be clipped Because it's like this is good, but only when we want it to be good. How would you talk to him about I'm being my authentic self? Still now he's a coach. He always thinks of things differently. That's his superpower and that's how he helps people grow is he shifts their perspective on the circumstances. But when a corporate environment, it was always really difficult to be as authentic self, you know, because it just really wasn't. You know what's it called in corporate. It's not political savvy, it's not I forgot the word. I've been gone from corporate for so long.
But you know it just wasn't. It didn't fit the corporate culture. So how would you talk to him about being self-acceptance like? But this is who I am.
0:38:18 - Laura Gallaher
I mean a lot of that comes back to being able to communicate really openly and inviting that openness and return right. So somebody who finds themselves feeling like their wings are clipped in an environment, if they can sit with that and pay attention to like, what are all the fears that come up for me? If I was to have an open conversation, if I was to be honest about how I feel, um, and the story in my head that my wings are being clipped, what am I afraid will happen? What am I afraid that this person might say or do in response to me, sharing my actual, honest, authentic experience? And I can actually share that.
It's a tool that we reference in our work, called First, truth First, which is like and it states, with this whole thread of like, authenticity and vulnerability, like I can actually address at the meta level what I notice happening and what I want. And, of course, all of this really only works when I'm also super willing and able to listen. So I might tell myself a story like oh, my wings are being clipped. Oh, you want my superpower, but only when you want it and like the rest of the time. So I've probably got some defense mechanisms going on for me that I'm not fully aware of. Useful to keep that as a possibility, but find out what's this person's truth. If I don't label them as stupid or evil or wrong, then what is it what? What's going on for them?
0:39:45 - Betsy Jordyn
Well, I think that I think that that's partially true, but I think, in this particular circumstance cause I was the consultant on many different things you know, this company was held by a holding company, you know, and even though the company want to go in a different direction, like, but they wound up moving him under a leader that you know was going to give him this was a senior VP, being put into a different role. Like, don't, don't point out, you know, like, don't point this stuff out. Like we, you know, we know that our walk's not matching the talk. Just don't tell us that he did get moved over and then eventually he did get laid off. Um, you know, laid off.
So there is some of it is, it was an accurate scenario and it's like, so what do you do? Is if my, my self-acceptance and my truth is not in alignment with where this culture actually is, or what they want? You know, living in self-acceptance around like what? Like, how does self-acceptance like in my mind? I'm like, as I apply this one, it's like, well, he should be in an environment that he could thrive, like he was not able to thrive here. And you know, no judgment, I don't fit here, but you know how do you help companies where in so many ways, like you know, as OD people, you know we help them all the time with like leadership competencies that put a lot of people in a specific box that makes it hard for them to thrive in those environments.
You know, like I, one of the things that was told when I first got to Disney is the best way to stand out is to fit in and like that's a different, that's a, it's an interesting recipe, like so that's why I'm asking a question around like there is a reality around corporate life that expects you to be in a certain way and then you on your own personal journey of self-acceptance. What do you do when these things don't match? And how do you help companies? Maybe just loosen the reins around, like even what leadership competency should be like so that people can actually be what they are, or I don't know how you help them. You know, when you're talking to the senior leaders at the top, you know, around creating that culture but still having some sort of expectations like how do you work on that balance?
0:41:45 - Laura Gallaher
So, on the one hand, rejection is protection. Right If I am being my authentic self and I ended up getting pushed out of an organization because we're not in alignment, thank God.
0:41:55 - Betsy Jordyn
Yeah, right.
0:41:57 - Laura Gallaher
Like thank you Right For showing me the doors that I can find. The next opportunity I mean I think that's really useful to keep in mind is that it's not a bad thing to make a decision to say I am not aligned with the culture of this organization. Our values don't align. That is not bad. But I don't have to judge the organization. They don't have to judge me. They probably do, because humans can be very judgy, because we judge ourselves so much.
But I can simply look at that and go. You know what this is.
Just I'm noticing that I'm not wanting to stay in a company that is asking me to stifle pieces of who I am, and that's okay you know y'all are looking for benefits here and that's not me and I I believe that I'm going to be able to find something that is better suited for me, that aligns more with my values. Some of the self-acceptance comes back to the deepest levels. Do I trust that I can cope with whatever might happen? Do I think I can cope? Not like am I going to be super excited and happy. Am I going to have all the answers immediately, but do I trust that I am competent enough to navigate life?
0:42:58 - Betsy Jordyn
Yeah, Like self-acceptance is self-trust. You know like I could be my truth, speak my truth, and if people don't like it, I can withstand the rejection or disappointment or anything that might come my way the rejection or disappointment or anything that might come my way?
0:43:15 - Laura Gallaher
Yes, and the other thing that I would say, not knowing the details of this person or the organization, is that I am fairly confident that, because they are human, they have different defense mechanisms in play. All parties involved, right these things that hang out in our subconscious, which means we are undermining ourselves, we're not communicating as effectively as we could. So if this person is pointing out like hey, you're not walking the talk, the question I would have for that person is were you even 1% in a defensive or triggered state in any of the times that you were pointing out this person isn't walking the talk?
or even 1% in a place of judging, because that defensiveness is also contagious and will trigger defensiveness and response and there's maybe not, but there's probably a way with higher self-acceptance that somebody could communicate the same message and have it received differently.
0:44:11 - Betsy Jordyn
That is good, and I think that there's a lot where it's like you have to just, you know, pay attention to some of the you know some of the realities of like okay, well, is this my monkeys in my circus to fix or is it not?
You know, and you know this particular organization, you know I there was a lot of other tentacles where I don't know if he was like.
You know, there was a lot of other tentacles, but I think that the point is still there is that there's still this external pressure to be or deliver certain things. And then there's your self-determination of like who I am and being authentic to that or being honest about it and having acceptance, and sometimes they match and sometimes they don't. And if you grow in your own self acceptance and you realize the environment that you have isn't, isn't, a nurturing environment for you, then you get to make the empowered choice, which is why I think a lot of people do choose to leave and start their own businesses and maybe go back and and try to help corporations, but maybe with more distance, you know, and more more objectivity. I know you have a course that you have for leaders, so I would love to hear a little bit more about your course and how um consultants and coaches could use that to maintain that objectivity as they go into organizations or they want to grow their own leadership skills as an entrepreneur.
0:45:27 - Laura Gallaher
Yeah, absolutely. Even when you were talking about this organization and then kind of like loosening the reins or just sort of let like the very first lesson in the entire digital leadership catalyst is open-mindedness. It was the very first thing that we ask leaders to Okay.
0:45:42 - Betsy Jordyn
Tell us, tell us big picture. What is the digital leadership catalyst?
0:45:45 - Laura Gallaher
Yeah, digital leadership catalyst is a. It's a self-paced program that we created. It's actually meant to be a broader leadership program that has four courses within it, and half of those courses are all focused on self.
So, learning how to lead your thoughts. Learning how to lead your behaviors. Better understanding these ideas of self-acceptance. Defense mechanisms how does this play into my communication? Also, identity who am I, who do I want to be? Mechanisms how does this play into my communication? Also, identity who am I, who do I want to be? And then the second half of the program of the leadership catalyst is getting into okay, how do I now show up as a leader for other people? How do I create healthy team relationships and team cohesion? How do I drive performance? How do I work effectively across boundaries? So the program as a whole is designed to really give leaders a full inside out look at how they can grow into being the kind of leader they want to be.
0:46:37 - Betsy Jordyn
Oh, that's beautiful. And is this something like? Is there actionable tips like a consultant or coach, if they have it, if they're not like really leading a team anymore but they're helping with leaders? Are there like actionable kind of tips that they can use to improve their own consulting, coaching effectiveness?
0:46:55 - Laura Gallaher
Yeah, absolutely. I mean because, because so much of it focuses on self-first and self-awareness first and relationship with self. It's going to, you're going to feel it everywhere. The clients that we work with the most, or clients we work with all the time, say that they use the ideas from their work with us everywhere. They use it not just at work, but they use it in any kind of human relationship they have. So I use the concepts all the time as a consultant and coach that's working externally with leaders, and every single lesson is not just a video but there's a workbook. So there's this active application that you can always go. Okay, I learned this thing. What do I do with it?
0:47:33 - Betsy Jordyn
And what's the address to find this course and purchase it?
0:47:37 - Laura Gallaher
I think the easiest place to go would actually just be our primary website, which is gallagheredgecom, and then you can access the program. I think there's like a banner at the top. Oh, that's beautiful.
0:47:49 - Betsy Jordyn
So is there anything else that you want to talk to me about as it relates to self-acceptance, about how you apply the psychology of human behavior to organizations, or anything else as it relates to being an entrepreneur, a thought leader, all of those kinds of things, and I'm just not asking you the right questions.
0:48:09 - Laura Gallaher
I'll leave on a bit of a meta with self-acceptance, which is anybody who is listening to this and going oh man, I think I have low self-acceptance. I'm constantly judging myself. At any point in time, you can choose to interrupt that process of being self-critical and self-judgy by practicing acceptance, like okay, this is just where I am at this right now.
This may be the first time that I'm hearing about her. You know what I heard about this three years ago and I guess it didn't internalize it. Okay, like bringing acceptance in any point can stop a spiral that I see a lot of high achievers get into. So wherever you are now is okay. It's where you're meant to be, and the more you're just okay with that right now, I promise you, the faster you're going to grow.
0:48:56 - Betsy Jordyn
Yeah. So it's like, instead of doing the Buddha second arrow where you spend so much time I'm sure you're familiar with Buddha second arrow, you know where there's like the first arrow, whatever it is, that bothers us and the second is the story that we make up about it and and it's really the that's what creates the suffering, you know, rather than just being with whatever is you know. So I would probably just say, like, just as an applications, like, of course, just be, all is good except what is. And the faster that you could accept what is, the faster you'll move. The longer that you resist what is that, then you're going to stay stuck. So, wherever you're at in your journey, just be where you are and accept the desires that are in your heart. If this is what you want, accept that. And one of the big things is accept how you're wired, accept your gifting and take that gratitude practice. I think that's just wonderful. I could talk to you forever about this. This is so helpful. I'm so, so grateful for you to be on the show.
Your journey is just fascinating, and just being an organizational psychologist is a high achiever, but bringing this heart-centered message to organizations, I just think, is so powerful and necessary. You're the perfect container to share this journey. I just love. I love what you've done with your business. It's been a while since since I work with you, but I would never pictured how beautiful you're. I keep using the word beautiful because it just feels like that you have embarked on.
So thank you for being on the show and for all of you who are listening. If you want to hear more inspiring people like Laura, be sure to hit subscribe wherever you're listening. And until next time, just thanks so much for showing up and I'll see you in the next show. Thank you for tuning in. If today's episode lit a fire in you, please rate and review enough already on Apple podcasts or subscribe wherever you listen. And if you're looking for your next step, visit me on my website at Betsy Jordancom and it's Betsy Jordan with a Y and you'll learn all about our end-to-end services that are custom designed to accelerate your success. Don't wait, start today.
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